This interview was conducted in
Melbourne, on
18/5/00. Shimada Masahiko is one of a number of contemporary Japanese writers
of fiction with whom Yoshimoto is often associated such as Murakami Haruki and Yamada
Amy. As well as participating in the 2000 Sydney Writers Festival, Shimada also
visited Melbourne to present a lecture entitled ‘The Dream of a Free Person:
Talking about Suburbs, Suicide and Capitalism’ at the Readers’ Feast Bookstore.
This interview gave me a chance to hear from a writer, as opposed to literary
critic, about the reasons for Yoshimoto’s literary success.
1. Kitchen was now published ten years ago. How did you react to it at
the time it was published? Has your thinking about Kitchen changed over the
last ten years?
Over the last ten years
Yoshimoto has published lots of books. One comment I would make is that,
Yoshimoto writes about themes such as sadness and happiness, very simple
emotions which have been central to Japanese literature since the Heian Period
and Sei Shonagon. In the Edo Period, Modori Norinaga, in a discussion about
karagokoro (Chinese logic) and
mono no aware (Japanese emotions), said
that in Japanese literature there is a long tradition of expressing
mono no aware. And yet there are many
people who say that novels based on logic have taken over from those based on
mono no aware. It is strange that in
Japan mono no aware novels don’t sell, isn’t
it?
2. What promise did Kitchen show at the time of its publication? Has
this promise been fulfilled by Yoshimoto? In which novels do you feel this
promise has been most fulfilled?
At first Yoshimoto sold lots of
books, it would have been good if I had been able to buy shares. She has lots
of secretaries and translators and she is researching about
Argentina. Since
Kitchen there has been some debate as to
whether she would be able to continue writing.
3. In this thesis I am comparing Yoshimoto’s fiction with novels by
Murakami Haruki, Murakami Ryu and Shimada Masahiko. Do you think that this
group (the shinjinrui) represents contemporary Japanese fiction? If so, what do
they represent about the thinking and attitudes of contemporary Japanese
people?
The term
shinjinrui is no longer used. If you use that term you will be
laughed at.
Murakami Ryu is like a stock
dealer, he latches on to emerging themes and social issues faster than anyone
else and also manages to write about them very quickly. That is his strength.
He is like a journalist. He reflects the thinking of the people at that time.
But it would be better to explore things that people don’t already know. If you
reflect the thinking of Japanese people today, as it is now, you will miss the
boat. Reflecting the times is the job of the journalist not the novelist. But
he is an excellent journalist.
Murakami Haruki is very
complicated. He writes about contemporary themes but he doesn’t attempt to
provide any answers to any of the questions that he raises. The stories always
have ambiguous endings. His conclusion is always that there is no suitable
solution to the problem. Within that circumstance he will tell a romantic story
and he has many readers.
4. Oe Kenzaburo has been critical of the shinjinrui saying that they are
not serious enough. He fears that contemporary fiction will leave only a ‘few
objects like cars, TVs and microcomputers’ behind. Do you think that this
criticism is warranted?
That comment was made nine
years ago and the thinking at that time is now anachronistic. It was just an
old person’s cliché in denial. In relation to technology and literature, Oe
Kenzaburo learnt how to use a fax machine for the first time about six years
ago. He thought he was keeping up with the times.
5. Contemporary classical music (such as that of Steve Reich) is competing
against music from the past and is experimenting with sound through sampling
and other new technologies. Is contemporary fiction being influenced by similar
factors?
The writer has to do all they
can to find a readership. They have to create their own readership. The writer
has to establish a new communication with this readership. There are various
efforts that need to be made. At the moment the biggest selling books, or the
easiest books for a publisher to sell, are mysteries. There is a big market for
these books.
6. If the novel is being aimed at a wider audience, does this mean that the
standards of literature are being lowered or is the awareness of the public
being raised?
Compared to twenty years ago,
thirty years ago, the number of readers has increased. But what the reader is
interested in has changed. The number of people who think that literature
should entertain has increased whilst the number of people who think that
literature must be high quality and contain new philosophies has decreased.
7. What has been the greater need for Japanese novelists since the
Meiji Period, the need to explain Japan to Japanese people or the need to
explain Japan to an international audience?
Japanese people don’t really
need
Japan
to be explained to them do they? They understand their own times and the common
debates of their own times. But for foreigners the context needs to be
explained. But to take that to extremes it is related to what kind of language
is the Japanese language? How do you teach the Japanese language well? To
explain these things you need to have a strong framework or logic to do it in.
Amongst Japanese it is not necessary to have such a framework. But when you are
talking to people who do not understand Japanese very well if you want to
explain how Japanese people think you have to invent such a framework to do
this in. There is a big gap I think.
8. In a newspaper interview (Yomiuri Shimbun) in 1995 you said that 80% of
contemporary Japanese writers are writing in an orthodox Japanese style. How
would you define the ‘orthodox’ Japanese style? Is such orthodoxy possible in
the global market?
Under foreign influences we
need to reform the Japanese language. There are not many people who are aware
of this I think. We need to communicate in Japanese but also we need to
consider how we represent Japan and what metaphor should we use to represent
Japan. Should we use technology? Should we use tradition? Maybe we should use
the romance genre?
When the average person writes
a novel they fall into certain categories. There are only percent of writers
who do not fall into these categories. Previously you chose the category that
you will use and then wrote about
Japan. But there are Japanese
people who have been forgotten about in
Japan,
there is a forgotten
Japan
that nobody can find and a
Japan
that has not yet been discovered. Only 20 per cent of Japanese writers are
working hard in the language to find the answers to these questions.
9. Are contemporary Japanese novelists free from the need to explain Japan
or is this still a function of Japanese literature?
Yes, very much so because
politicians misrepresent the country. It should not become misunderstood. If
they were journalists,
Japan
wouldn’t be misunderstood would it?
10. In this environment, how would you define the difference between
literature and fiction and literature? What category would you put Yoshimoto
Banana into?
Let’s think about history and
the novel for a while. History is about facts and the collection of those facts
that come to the surface.
Lack of
historical material can be a problem. In a novel, invention or the use of the
imagination is allowed. In history there is a plot. Historical plot is
determined by the method of interpretation. The plot of a novel is determined
by how the novel is going to entertain the reader, and what information is
going to be provided to the reader. Therefore history and the novel are very
different.
Of course literature includes
history. The novel is also included in literature. And within the novel,
fiction is a genre of literature… Romance…. Satire… Much data is collected like
in an encyclopedia…. There are numerous genres. Banana writes fiction.